先輩インタビュー/起業家 岡本 康典

TP Interview 001：アスツール株式会社　代表取締役　加藤雄一（後編）

TP Interview 001：アスツール株式会社　代表取締役　加藤雄一（後編）

人間の価値観、生き方を完全に変えるほどインパクトがある
日常的に無意識で使える『道具』を生みだしたい

 

 

自社で手がけるブラウザアプリ「Smooz」を、「自転車で言うところのロードバイクみたいなスーパーブラウザにしたい」と語る加藤氏。「人間の価値観・生き方を完全に変えるほどインパクトがあって、日常的に無意識で使える“道具”を生み出したい」とビジョンを掲げ、順調にサービスを成長させている加藤氏に、起業の背景やその根底にあるものを語ってもらった。

 

起業初期、不安と自信

【インタビュアー：岡本】一人起業ではなく、他の仲間がいるのは心強いですか？

【加藤氏】
そうですね。やっぱり一人の方が不安なことが多いんじゃないかなって思います。

もちろん給料を払い続けないといけないなどのプレッシャーもありますが、仲間がいるとやれることも増えるし、ぶっちゃけ自分がひるみそうになっても、メンバーの人が頑張っている姿を見ると、やっぱりできそうだなって思います。仲間からは、もらえるものもたくさんあります。

だから、僕は一人より、複数の方がいいなって思います。
初期の頃は一人でやっていたんですけど、
仲間を最初から集められるんだったらその方がいいと思います。

 

 【岡本】起業するのに一番苦労したことは何ですか？

【加藤氏】
やっぱりプロダクトが当たらないときついですよね。
B向けサービスだったら１社、２社を確保できれば売上はたつじゃないですか。
C向けは０→１の世界なんで、当たればそれなりにいいけど、当たらないと０なんです。

アプリを出すまでには半年くらいかかっていますけど、その間が一番きつかったです。
半年間、お金も時間もかけて全速力でやって全く報われない可能性もあるので、信じてやり続けるっていうのは一番きつかったです。

今はある程度ユーザーさんがいて、どうやって増やしていくかというフェーズになっていますが、やっぱり０→１が一番難しいです。

人を集めるにも、「何やってるの？」って訊かれて、「こういうものつくっているんです」と言って未完成品を見せますし、資金を集めるにしても「それユーザーいるの？」と言われても「０です、これからです」と、なんの証拠もない状態なんです。

あるのは、パッションと練りに練ったプランだけ。でも、プランはあくまでプランなので。
「私、オリンピックに絶対出ます！」っていう実績ゼロの人と、「都大会は出てます」って人とは全然違います。実績がないと、なかなか信じてもらえないですね。

 

 【岡本】起業する前に、０→１となるような経験はありましたか？

【加藤氏】
アプリは前から趣味でつくっていたんです。その前までに3つくらい自分でリリースしていたんです。
やっぱりやるごとに上手くなっていくんです。

最初につくったのは数百人ぐらいのユーザーさんで、次は数千人、その次は１万人くらいと増えていきました。
やっぱりクオリティも上がっていくし、技術面以外でも勘所、ここをつくと喜んでもらえるだろうなって感覚がわかるようになってきたので、そういう意味ではいかせたところはありました。

僕はもともと慎重派なので、この経験がなかったら、そもそも起業に踏み出してなかったかもしれないです。

 

大事にしているのは、「思い込みをなくす」こと

【岡本】会社ではなく、加藤さん個人で大事にしている価値観、考え方はありますか？

【加藤氏】
僕が自分に戒めているのは、「思い込み」をなるべくなくすことです。
ニュースを見ても思うじゃないですか、あいつ絶対悪いやつだなって。基本的にはメディアも一つのアングルで切り込んでくるし、それもうまく組み立てられているじゃないですか。

経営もそうだと思うんですけど、

思い込むと危険が増えると思いますし、本当につくりたかったものがつくれないと思うんです。

会社経営するときも、C向けのサービスをやっている以上、ユーザーの行動やニーズをいかに曇りなく見られるか。

こうなって欲しいじゃなくて、起こっているありのままを、「そうなんだ」って謙虚な気持ちで数字とか事実をみるのはすごく大事だなって思います。

 

 【岡本】今後ですが、やはり上場は考えていますか？

【加藤氏】
そうですね。うちはベンチャーキャピタルから出資してもらっていて、このまま安定成長という道は閉じられているので、急成長しないといけないんです。
そういう意味では、起業前に悩んだポイントの一つではあります。
僕だけが月１００万円稼げばいいのか、もっと大きなことがやりたいのか。
どっちかの道を選ばなければならなかったんですけど、普通に考えられれば、後者の方が茨の道じゃないですか。だから、後者を選ぶとなった時は本当にそっちに行くのかを考えました。

 

 【岡本】最終的には何が決め手でしたか？

【加藤氏】
１年間フリーランスでアプリをつくりながら、前職の楽天から仕事をもらっていた時のことですが、ある程度仕事をすればサラリーマン並の給料が振り込まれる生活をしていました。でも、あまりお金に価値を見出せなかったんです。

それより、死ぬまでにやりたいことで、
なんか一つチャレンジしてでっかくやって大失敗するか、
大成功するかみたいな自分の可能性にかけてみることをやってみたかったんです。

自分で始めなくても、ほかの人にジョインしてもいいんじゃないかなとも思いましたが、これというものと出会えなかったので、結局、自分で起業しました。

 

 【岡本】判断に迷ったときはどうされるんですか？

【加藤氏】

迷っている時はあんまり決めないです。腹落ちするまで寝かせることが多いです。
だから期限までにかなり情報収集しますね。

何でもそうだとは思うんですけど、最初情報量が上がっていって、最終的に煮詰まるじゃないですか。
だから、最後は直感で決めることが多いです。でも直感だけというのもダメじゃないですか。
情報を集めた上でないと直感もあてになりません。

やっぱり情報収集しないで雑に決めたものって結構後悔することあるなと思っています。
もうこれ以上の決断はできなかったから、たとえ結果がどうなっても大丈夫と思えるのはいいですよね。
あの時にもっと変えることができたかもしれないと思うと後悔してしまうので。

それと、重要じゃないものは決断しないときもあります。

重要な課題にはそれだけの労力を投じて解決しようとしますけど、重要じゃないものに時間を割いても仕方ないので。重要じゃないものは、一言「検討しますね」とか返しはしますが。
それで向こうも追ってこないし、こっちも返さないってなります。

全部が全部、即断即決で処理するっていうのも、脳内エネルギーが足りなくなるので。

どちらかというと、僕は優柔不断ですね（笑）
即断即決はあまりしない方です。

新卒で就職する時もソニーと商社とで２ヶ月くらい迷っていましたね（笑）
いろんな人に相談していって、話していくうちに自分で少しずつわかってくるというか。
重要な決断には時間かけるタイプです。

 

 【岡本】期限がないようなものはどうされるんですか？

【加藤氏】

この決断はどんなインパクトがあるのか、修正できるんじゃないかとかを考えます。

たとえば、会社でいうと、資本政策って絶対に融通がきかないので、渡した株を返してもらうってことになっちゃうので、そんな重要なものは２ヶ月間先延ばししてしっかり考える方が絶対いいと思います。

事実、アマゾンCEOのジェフ・ベゾスも、「修正できる決断と修正できない決断を分けろ」と言ってます。
新卒の就職でも一週間で会社を辞めることもできるとは思うんですけど、あまり現実的ではないですし、失うものも多いです。

だから、自分のキャリアを変えるとき、どっちの方向に切り出すのかっていうのは、結構重要だなと思って時間をかけてやりました。

日々のプロダクトの仕様とかはアナリティクスの数字見てロジカルで決められるものがほとんどだし、そうじゃないものも、やってみてダメだったら変えようって5秒で決めることもあるので、仕分けするっていうのは大事です。

 

 【岡本】そうすると、余計な不安もなくなりそうですね。

【加藤氏】
そうですね。
仕事の仕方もそうじゃないですか。

仕事ができない人って、会社来てメール見て、未読のメールを何も考えずに全部見ていくじゃないですか。仕事ができる人は、バーッとスキミングしていって重要なものから手をつけてあとは無視。
一日は２４時間なので、足りなかったらしょうがない。

 

 【岡本】逆に完璧主義の人だとそういうのはできないですよね。

【加藤氏】
そうですね。
よく言われるのが、大雑把な人が経営者に向いているというのはそれもあるのかなと思います。

 

 【岡本】やっぱりメリハリをつけないと疲れますよね。それも学生時代からやっていたことなんですか？

【加藤氏】
僕は高校から大学まで、いかに効率的に人生を生きていくか、しか考えていなかったので（笑）
目の前のテストも、いかに勉強しないで切り抜けるかしか考えていなかったです。
でも、自分の興味があるものは試験で求められていないところまでやっていました。
そこはある意味メリハリをつけていたかもしれないです。

 

一歩踏み出すことに悩んでいる人へ

【岡本】最後に、読者へ向けたメッセージをお願いします。

【加藤氏】
僕も、プログラミングやプロダクトの経験がなければ今の商品も踏み出せなかったのですが、不安なものには何か不安な理由があると思います。

まだ何もしていなくて、自信もスキルも知識もなにもないところで踏み出すのは怖いと思うんです。
不安なら不安の原因を取り出して、今目先でやれる事を少しずつやっていけばいいと思います。

いろんなやり方があると思うんです。
ガーッと勢いで起業してギャップを埋めていくやり方があっている人もいるし、僕みたいな慎重派はやっていくうちに自信がついてきて、「これならやれる」という自分でつくってきた勢いに自分が押されるような進み方もあると思います。
僕と似ている慎重派の人は、このやり方がオススメかもしれません。

 

 【岡本】２０歳の自分に一言だけ伝えておきたいことがあるとしたら何を伝えたいですか？

【加藤氏】

「好きなことをうんとやったらいいよ」

って言いたいですね。
やっぱり大人になればなるほど、パッションに正直に生きることが難しくなるので。
別にそんなことないのに勝手にそうなっていくじゃないですか、多くの人は。
だから、好きなことをうんとやる習慣ってすごい大事だなって思うんです。
まんべんなくやるより、なんかに偏るぐらいでもいいなと思います。

僕は高校生の時に、一度プログラミングを始めたことがあったんです。
だけど、難しいな、めんどくせえなって思ってやめちゃったんです。
今思うと、あのまま続けていたら違ったかもなって思うこともあります（笑）

 

関連記事：
TP Interview 001：アスツール株式会社　代表取締役　加藤雄一（前編）
起業アイデアの考え方

参考リンク：
次世代スマホブラウザ「Smooz」

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